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Praise God and Praise the Lord! I like you, have had a sure witness even as I am writting this that it is true. Thank you so much for sharing your story! I realized it was up to me to ask, seek, knock, learn and apply with or without him. Choose one innovative idea the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has announced in the last 10 years. Some have said that it has to do with having more children and posterity. In my experience the most important point of the discussion here, which I believe to be among earnest seekers of truth, is being lightly treated by those on this forum but clearly illustrated in your comment. So beautiful and strong words that I saw citated by you and Greg this dynamic of dying and be born again. I am finding that this doctrine adds more meaning and understanding to my gospel study. The True and Living Church of Jesus Christ of Saints of the Last Days ( TLC) is a breakaway sect of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church). I believe even to the point that if I see an extra dark effort to oppose something then it must be very significant. The answers are there if you seek them from the Lord and in His timing. Thanks for sharing Eric! car accident on meadowbrook parkway today. For the uninitiated, Multiple Mortal Probation (MMP) is similar to the concept of reincarnation. Thanks for sharing. What, when, and to whom those truths could come was left open-ended. Another name who too . I see that I am at the beginning of a long path of understanding. The Church Has a Bunker-Like Network of Tunnels. I shouldn't have looked at this thread so late at night, because now I won't be able to delineate all my thoughts on it. Not once, has this doctrine pulled me away from the gospel, as many false prophets and their teachings aim to achieve. And as the head of our creation under the Father, it is Jesus who will be head in the next creation the way the father is. Yet they lived on the earth at the beginning when it was nearly still a paradise, and they lived to almost 1000 years before dying. And it is all possible only in and through the merits of our Savior, the Son. Other saints (W.W. Phelps) were blessed to act in Trinities (or Presidencies of worlds). Despite the comments and quoted references that say Joseph taught reincarnation, I do not see any of his doctrine that teaches it. It lasted several weeks. The thrill is gone. I welcome it! Thanks for sharing this interesting history. . Mormons Believe that Christ, Heavenly Father, and the Holy Ghost are Separate Beings. . Elena, I hope you feel the sincerity of my heart when I say, I hear you! honestly I never thought of this doctrine before I crossed your podcast. Thanks for sharing! That phrase indeed feels appropriate for the version of on several counts: I remember feeling a heavy emotion even as a very young person that I would now call despair, when I first learned this. This idea lines up nicely with JS' late teaching that the Sons of God who married the daughters of men in Genesis were resurrected beings who violated celestial laws (see quotation in OP), and, of course, it all lines up with JS' teachings about exaltation to exaltation in his comments about the Holy Ghost and God the Father in the King Follett Sermon, Sermon on the Grove, and other Nauvoo era comments. Given that the content of JS' revelations usually coincide with questions and subjects he is interested in at the time, my best guess is that this interpretation of 88 is probably a stretch. Which is not what actually happens. With a larger canon than most religions, members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have access to a great many doctrines regarding this topic. It challenged some of their traditional Christian beliefs. It taught me that accepting such information and experiences with out, knowing for my self (James 1:5) was and is a danger zone for me to be in. Mormonism today is pretty bland by comparison. I could discern truth because I have long since done what you and Julie ask us to do almost every podcast. But Icanlook upon thee in the natural I couldnt agree more with what youve said about the saviors role the doctrine doesnt diminish Him, it emphasizes Him and deepens my reverence for all He risked losing by condescending. In fact, he attributed his identification of Michael as God the Father to JS' commentary on Daniel and JS' equivalence of Adam, Michael, and the Ancient of Days. That being said I am personally bound by the admonition given in countless times and ways throughout scripture and most clearly in the Doctrine and Covenants 63: 64. Hopefully they will trust in me enough to do so. I converted to the church in my early twenties when i received a witness of the book of mormon and of Joseph Smith. 44 Wherefore, he saves ALL EXCEPT THEMthey shall go away into everlasting punishment, which is endless punishment, which is eternal punishment, to reign with the devil and his angels in eternity, where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched, which is their torment. I feel motivated to try harder and do better. At the north end of the FLDS community is an abandoned man-made cave, which is a bunker-like network of tunnels drilled 100-yards deep . In the years since my witness of the Doctrine of Multiple Probations has increased considerably, I embrace it with eagerness. Thank you sincerely for sharing this with us! Thanks for your kind thoughts Traci, and for your believing heart. widowsmitereport.wordpress. That actually seems more admirable to me - that Jesus himself "became" who he was through 1000's of lifetimes of progression and trial and error, just like the rest of us. Multiple Mortal Probations (MMP) Eternal Progression, and Progression between Kingdoms The Flag of the Kingdom of God Apostasy Unchangeability of the Doctrines of Salvation and Exaltation Fallibility or Infallibility of Men Appointed as Church Leaders Whether or Not the LDS Church Could Fall into Apostasy As I pondered the gravity of that situation seeing the effects of disobedience in other families and in my own I prayed asking Heavenly Father how he could let so many of His children fall and be cast off. over the airways and fiber lines of our media sources. Details mapped state by state. I love Them with all my heart and desire to serve them forever. Interesting, interpretation. This all adds up to only one conclusion in my mind, there is a way and a plan, and the fact that so many do not achieve their potential in a short life span, means there must be another time and place to prove themselves and the Doctrine of Multiple Probations is the only doctrine I see that provides a fair, and merciful means by which mankind may improve themselves line up line, precept upon precept enough to eventually become perfected in their own generations and exalted in all levels of Heaven. In words borrowed of the symbol of the baptism we will lay down our old body to receive a new one. He, Only He. Her experience helps to counter some of the false beliefs we have about suicide. It is particularly comforting to realize that I can let go of the worry and anxiety of wayward children who have struggled to stay on the path, that this doctrine provides the hope that there is plenty of time, if they chooseto move forward in their ( or my own) progression. You can learn more about it here . I would comment but feel it is too sacred. I simply found that it merited investigation. My heart is full . The Bible is ripe with evidence in this belief. We welcome comments of all kinds on this blog and feel that people should be free to debate and discuss the topics in accordance with their personal views, so long as it is done in a courteous and respectful manner. I am he. While belief in this doctrine is unpopular in the Christian world at this time, I would like to share some of the ways it has been a blessing to me. we would not have experience and could not really gain knowledge or wisdom. What a great man and prophet he was. I'm not going to do anything drastic, but, goodness gracious! This was part of a long prayer. It reminds me again of Gods ever extended arm of mercy. It answers many of my questions, How could a god (Lucifer) fall from grace, how could the Savior become who he was in one lifetime, how could I ever make it to the celestial kingdom if my partner wasnt willing to live the gospel. When I have read the account where the church leaders during the Saviors time were asking him if he were Jeremiah or some other great prophet, that never made sense to me until after reading your book, then it made perfect sense to me. What happened was that I would hear a name in my mind and immediately a person on the other side of the girl would introduce themselves and then they would thank me for helping them in their trialed, this was not for 1 probationary earth but many. Although Sister Rowe is an active member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, her book is not endorsed by the Church and should not be recommended to students or used as a resource in teaching them. Whether or Not the LDS Church Could Fall into Apostasy; . One should note that reincarnation in Kabbalism isn't reincarnation of a full person but is more akin to Platonic notions. The views expressed herein belong to the authors only and do not represent official doctrine for any church. true, it should only come through certain lines of authority. Likewise those who want Kabbalistic influence on Joseph (which I personally find pretty dubious - we don't know the extent of Neibaur's actual knowledge of Kabbalah or Kabbalistic texts) simultaneously require a misreading of these texts. You are obviously gifted and inspired by God. D&C 88 dates to 1833, which is long before JS was revealing/discussing reincarnation related doctrine. I can see that in the spiritual world it goes way beyond any earthly graduate school I can imagine. Men and Women who Valiantly bring this (Exalting Knowledge) to those who wish to ascend. JS also gave more info about this path to exaltation, which is that the Holy Ghost, the third member in the Godhead, was going to serve as a Christ. . We have had two grandsons and a nephew commit suicide in their teens. One must review and agree to the rules of the group, established due to a few that join just to create contention and kick against the pricks. So, the basis of this conclusion is baseless. Ill be looking forward to hearing more!!! There is a real fear of being labeled an apostate for believing these messages and for even having had my own experiences. p.104 - see also Documentary History of the Church 2:304-307 I told . LDS church on Gilgul or multiple mortal probations Third Hour Forum Rules - Please be familiar with these rules before posting. 23But if ye receive me in the world, then shall ye know me, and shall receive your exaltation; that where I am ye shall be also. I still struggle to understand my place in the eternitys. As is common knowledge, the trio of beings who participate in the creation in the temple are Michael, Jehovah, and Elohim, and these possibly represent JS' conception of the Godhead. Even Brigham Young said, My traditions were such, he confessed, that when the Vision came first to me, it was directly contrary and opposed to my former education. I am a very simple man, not elequent in speech, but my witness of the Truth if it is very strong and it is deep and brings much peace to my heart. I agree, in part. the merciful God of second chances I have since come to know and believe in. Have We Placed Our Hopes in the Arm of Flesh? I disagree, believe that most LDS believe as I do, that Eternal Lives means eternal increase and would like to address that in this position paper. I also believe that they want the best of everything for me and that I can become like them. God bless you. Just think of the fun rides in life one could take though Ken! Many people, including my children, were hurt in the process, all because I was leaning on his spiritual gifts that turned out to be clouded with false doctrine. It's my guess that JS believed that heirs of the Celestial Kingdom would not only serve as Christs, but first they would serve as Holy Ghosts. Once this one is done, I will be satisfied with whatever modest reward it qualifies me for. Hallelujah! How is it fair or reasonable that in our generation we are also to try to become perfect when our lives only last a mere 70-100 years, and we have to do it at a time when the earth has NEVER been more wicked? like my sweet wife. Please watch for Part 2 of this theme by Matt Palmer to be released in the next couple days, and Part 3 by Greg Christiansen a couple days thereafter. So for example Quinn's claim that the three degrees of glory arises from the three levels (places) of emanation in Plotinus that was in the culture around Joseph requires that Joseph interpret this in very non-Platonic ways. I have not ever been constrained by The Spirit to speak in ways that invite others to look to me for the answers that must only come from Father. Some parts of it make sense, but Ive never wanted to think too deeply about it because it made me feel such sadness to think I would be reborn somewhere else and lose my husband and kids, if they were to go somewhere else. Some of them taught such principles rather clearly over the pulpit, where their words have been recorded in the Journal of Discourses (JD). At best it just means the Holy Ghost doesn't have a body and will one day, will die, and will be resurrected. Joseph also said that the Holy Ghost is now in a state of Probation which if he should perform in righteousness he may pass through the same or a similar course of things that the Son has. speaking, writing, arithmetic, or who have spiritual gifts such as being My niece is a Medium, and she mentioned something like this happening when we go to the other side. It also appears to be welcomed and seriously considered among others of I am eternally grateful for all of the doctrines that you and Julie and others you work with have been brave enough to bring forward to those of us who were so very ready to embrace higher truths through the spirit..Lucifer continues to whisper to me that I am a nobody, and why out of all the people on the earth would I be privileged to have knowledge that only a few believe and have currently? After Moses had a face to face conversation with God, he had I asked the spirit and he said only once before. This concept was taught by early LDS Church leaders. It was like having a deep spiritual sigh while being purged of a host of simplistic, faulty, misleading, worrisome beliefs I had never recognized were dragging me down. I cannot share this knowledge with my family yet because they are so narrow-minded. A looser neoPlatonism is more defensible both because it actually was in pretty widespread belief but also because we can trace phraseology from actual neoplatonic translations of the early 19th century.
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